This is a parenting question, and by the time you read this something will have already been "done" one way of the other, but I thought I'd throw it out into the ether to get feedback.
Parenting is such a tender subject, and so often parents are winging it with respect to boundaries, or disciplinary stuff. And empty threats to our kids -- forget it. I hear so many it's just tiresome, not to mention totally ineffective and confusing for the kid. We try always to work as a team. We try our best to agree on issues BEFORE we need to implement any one course of action -- good or bad -- so we're not caught arguing or deciding in the heat of a challenging moment. When things with Willoree are slipping into crazy land (rare, but she's a healthy three...) we try to buy ourselves some time to come up with a logical and loving response before we deliver it to her. Case in point:
After lunch today, Willoree is taking her plate to the sink and kicks our dog, Quella, out of her way. A gentle kick, a full-body leg nudge if you will, but definitely a suspect behavior, and one that's gotten brasher and bolder over the past few weeks. Respect for each other (including the animals is HUGE in our household, and the verbal warnings/lessons just aren't seeming to do the trick. She "doesn't mean to" a lot, and/or "forgets" easily. Those excuses? I don't really buy them...she's just too smart.) I look at her and ask her what that was all about, and offer to take her plate for her and calmly send her to her room for a time out. She threatens that if I do that, she'll just, she'll just...and at a loss for words, she dumped the remains of her sandwich on the floor. I take her plate, say my "uh-oh" thing, and ask her again to go to her room. She goes to her room and then slams her door -- another no-no in our house -- and one that she's been taught several times.
So I see this as the trifecta of inacceptable, bratty behavior. (And maybe some residual effects of a week of Halloween candy? Our bad.) In any case, Ben and I are left wondering what would be a fair consequence. I'm pretty much the hard ass, so here's what I came up with and proposed to Ben. And this is the piece about which I'm seeking some feedback.
We're headed to a birthday party this afternoon and I suggested that the big delayed consequence love and logic style "lesson" will be to make her wait and eat her birthday cake at home. This means, sniff sniff, that the other kids will get yummy cake, eat it, etc. etc. while Willoree has to get a plate to go. (More details about the party have been posted -- read through the comments if you're interested. Mine is the 10th one.) Of course this somewhat breaks my heart, and part of me thinks it's really severe, but honestly: a piece of cake to go? Is it that big a deal? And is the pay off impact-wise worth it? We have decided to deliver the news ahead of time so it's not a surprise to her, or in any way mortifying (we hope); we've called the hosts of the party (also Love and Logic devotees) and forewarned them of what's going in and have asked for their support ("...heard you had a rough day; would you like to choose a plate to take home with you?", etc. etc.) and of course -- Willoree gets to eat her cake later.
The tactic of what we're trying here stems from Love and Logic philosophy. For those of you who don't know it, I think it's worth checking out. From their web site's FAQ page: Love and Logic is a philosophy of raising and teaching children which allows adults to be happier, empowered, and more skilled in the interactions with children. Love allows children to grow through their mistakes. Logic allows children to live with the consequences of their choices. Love and Logic is a way of working with children that puts parents and teachers back in control, teaches children to be responsible, and prepares young people to live in the real world, with its many choices and consequences.
Love and logic parents and facilitators value a child's confidence and dignity, healthy communication, and simple and practical techniques that are useful from baby age on up. In this case, I love the idea that we as parents can wisely choose appropriate and potentially "tough" lessons when the price tag is small, so that kids "get it" early on and learn to be wise, learn self-respect, and make better decisions later in life when the price tag is greater.
So. Be gentle. And let's discuss.
12 comments:
OK, I'm not a parent, so you can totally ignore me, but....I think a punishment is in order, but not one with the potential to cause humiliation in front of her peers. Being humiliated in front of my peers--even if they were not entirely cognizant of the punishment being meted out in front of them or if excuses for it were made--was a terrible hallmark of my childhood. The punishment is internal to your household, based on events on your household.... what about allowing her to go to the party and participate as she normally would, but afterwards assign her a punishment that will make her think about your rules for respect for all beings in the house and other rules--no material treats for a day or two? Brushing the dog two nights before bedtime, to reconnect with the need to treat her respectfully?
I was thinking it was fair until I read Kendra's comment. Now, I just don't know. I do know that she can't get away with that kind of action and that kicking an English Shepherd is a nono.
Waiting for the follow up.
I like Kendra's idea of connecting with the dog emotionally. It often works for us to ask the girls to come up with their own punishment, what they think would be fair. We've also learned for the whole family to express our emotion (anger, sadness, etc.) instead of acting it out. Best wishes!
Well, I'm not a parent, either, so... grain of salt. But the thing about three is... the consequences are best if they're related and immediate. So... birthday cake later, taken to go, doesn't seem either. It seems a little confusing, and also not really much of a consequence. I would say some "do over" kindness to Quella, as a requisite for being able to go to the bday party at all, as well as helping to clean up the spilt food after she's calmed down and you've talked it out.
2cents.
Blogger Mary said...
At seventeen, my son said, "Mom, I'm like a dog. You have to hit me on the nose with a rolled up newspaper when it happens. Don't wait until it feels like a big deal."
So the party happened, it happened without drama, and I'll write more about it tomorrow.
Thanks to all who responded; fascinating, every comment!
Much love...
So.. I agree with Cedar Creek in that all reward/punishment needs to be age-appropriate. Reading up on the stages of child development will put a lot of insight on your child's behavior and what works or doesn't work and why! The following is a quote from my Maternal-Child textbook from Nursing School:
" Young children's development of moral judgement is at the most basic level. There is little, if any, concern for why something is wrong. They behave because of the freedom or restriction that is placed on actions. In the 'punishment and obedience orientation', children (ages about 2 to 4 years) judge whether an action is good or bad depending on whether it results in reward or punishment. If children are punished for it, the action is bad. If they are not punished, the action is good, regardless of the meaning of the act. For example, if parents allow hitting, the child will perceive that hitting is good because it is not associated with punishment." So, that is textbook, but it sounds to me that a child's moral level at that age isn't much more developed than the dog...no offense! Good luck :)
One: She's three. Two: she was in a bad mood and you guys exacerbated it. Three: your fancy punishment was way too elaborate, had the element of public himiliation, and probably only served to build more resentment. At three you tell her no. If she defies you, put her in time-out, let her yell and be pissed for a while. When she calms down, explain to her again briefly why we have to be nice to the dog and not defy mommy and daddy.
She's three. The more you make a big deal out of a little peckish behavior, the more she will see that if she wants your undivided attention she can throw another hissy fit and you'll go nuts thinking up elaborate punishments.
Love these. Thanks again for all your wonderful comments!
So some more background. I realize there are so many subjective aspects to this post. What our family dynamic is; our daughter's maturity level; how we've dealt with disciplinary action up to this point; and some general bg info about the Love and Logic philosophy -- which is the best explanation of how I try to parent.
We ended up delaying the cake. Here's how it shook out.
The birthday party was a family party in a home -- there was dinner, lemonade, fruit, games, presents -- much going on besides the cake. Attending were 11 adults (mostly parents, grandparents, a set of great grandparents, and our family -- and we have all known each other for a few years) the birthday boy, and Willoree. Given this setting, the "humiliation in front of peers factor" didn't seem to be a concern. I wasn't sure beforehand whether it would be just her and her friend, or if there would be another kid or two there. I agree fully that any element of humiliation would be a backslide, and so I appreciate all your words in regards to that. Not my intention at all here...
I told Willoree about the consequence in the hour between the bad behavior and the party, and indeed, she was bummed out at first. But when I asked her about it, and nudged her to think about why, she easily linked up her less than loving behavior with a "treat" being postponed. After a tear of frustration and a couple of I'm sorrys...she was OK. She wanted to snuggle and read a book and get ready to go. So we did. My focus here was love and empathy - lecturing didn't come into play. I love the adage in L&L that reminds parents to let the consequences do the teaching. So part of my gig as mama has been to use fewer words when things are going poorly, and TONS of words when they're going great. Willoree and we were free to react here in the privacy of our home.
When we got to our friend's house, I overheard her telling one of the grandmothers that she would be taking her cake to go, and told her about why, etc. etc. Since everyone at the party knew ahead of time what the situation was, there was only empathy, understanding, but again -- no lecturing -- from any of them. It was an ongoing thing to "live with" for Willoree, but there was an ease to it. And no drama. Simple statements like "yeah, sounds like you had a rough day. Would you like to pick your piece? OK! Great choice! etc. etc." was all I heard about it.
The cake was cut, Willoree chose her to-go plate and piece, and no one said anything else about it. WIthin a few minutes, the two kids were off playing.
So now it's tomorrow and she's eating her cake.
She came up to me as I was giving her the plate and gave me a hug, told me she loved me and talked about how important it was to be loving to animals, home, doors, food, etc. etc. We didn't get into lecturing things to death, just focusing on the love. The positive. And the cake...
My hope and intention was that she had a few gentle but impactful learning opportunities to think about things in her own framework: yesterday when the consequence was presented; when the cake was cut at the party; and again today while she's eating it.
More later as needed...
Keep the comments coming! I love hearing all the different ways people are reacting to this.
I subscribe to the reward/punishment appropriate to a 2-4 year old described above, but I was skeptical about the delay. I don't see them making the connection if too much time elapses. Reading the results, I am a bit amazed that Willoree connected the dots so well. It always depends on the child. MeiMei requires something more immediate, or she does not couple, ...or pretends she does not. Geez they get smart fast about this stuff.
long time ago, but
i love the idea of giving quella attention and apology, to remember the disparity between conscious actions of soft/tender vs. the violence next time she considers rearing up to tempt the same behavior.
a child wants (and deserves, o' course) attention, and working with so many different children i notice bratty behavior happens is usually a manipulation to get more of it.
my mom would have been really simple about this-- no party, no comment, go to your room, case closed. i learned really fast that no matter what, i could not fish out reprieve from her, nor bend her decisions. if i acted worse, or vied for more attention, she would calmly and resolutely make another decision that affected my future, and my hole would be deeper until i let go of my agenda and humbled down to go through the consequences.
no party for me would have been plenty consequential, a painful delayed punishment (talk about denied attention!! ouch!); and would have done the trick. for me. i remember scenes like this impeccably with my mom, and love her for her no-nonsense curtailment of behavior that she knew i knew was unacceptable.
to me, having the adults at the party know what was up and dote attention-- willoree being in any way "different" or "special" at the party-- all this gives me major attention heebee-jeebees, aggrandizing her and her 'event' so that she learns to be ever more elaborate with her schemes in the future. so it wasn't public humiliation, but something much, much sweeter (note to self).
of course i project, and perhaps sarcastic, but like the dog learning tricks... you bite and no treat, simple.
thanks for puttn yourself out there. love.
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